Author Topic: Fuel pump problem 2005 Girly  (Read 9138 times)

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November 09, 2014, 09:57:52 PM on

Offline Fross (OP)

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Hi everyone, I know I’ve not posted for a while but I do read what’s going on now and again. Now I need help. I have a fuel pump problem that all started with a blocked petrol cap drain. I’ve been noticing that every time I refuel there is water that runs into my fuel tank when I lift the cap. I tried to blow out the drain hole but couldn’t it was seriously blocked. I stupidly ignored the problem until last week when I rode down the road and the engine kept cutting in and out, so much so that I returned and had to use one of my trusty old Nortons instead. I presumed that it was the water in the tank causing the rough running. Today I removed the fuel tank in order to drain it of fuel and water, plus unblock the drain pipe. All this I did without problem.
Once it was all back together I put in 10 litres of fresh petrol and now the engine won’t start.:icon_cry: I thought that as I’d emptied the fuel rail supply tube it might take a while to get the fresh fuel to the injectors so kept trying all afternoon, but nothing. The pump used to make that screeching noise that others experience when I first turn on the ignition, but not today. In desperation I removed the fuel pipe from the tank, then connected a piece of hose pipe to see what I get when I turn on the ignition. Absolutely nothing. If I suck on the hose, fuel comes out, so I figure the fuel is there but the pumps not pumping. I tested the pumps electrical connector for power and have 12+ volts at the plug when the key is turned. I’ve tried wiggling the connector in case there’s a bad connection but can’t get the fuel pump to run.
Have I missed something or does it look like my fuel pump is kaput? Could it be that the deteriorating fuel pump was my cutting out problem and not the small amount of water in the tank? :icon_scratch:
Any advice will be welcome.
Regards, Fross
2005 Tiger plus a few Norton's dating from 1951 to 1972. New winter bike Kawasaki W650.
British Bikes don't leak oil, they mark their territory.

November 09, 2014, 10:47:50 PMReply #1 on

Offline Mustang

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whoops wrong button  :ImaPoser

yes I would highly suspect fuel pump , but how much water is a little ?

November 09, 2014, 11:05:42 PMReply #2 on

Offline Fross (OP)

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yes I would highly suspect fuel pump , but how much water is a little ?

It was difficult to tell how much water was present when I drained the tank but I don't think it was enough water to cause the problem.
I'm going to connect 12 volts to the pump connections directly from a battery and if it doesn't spin then I will replace it. I can't think of any other way to test it.
2005 Tiger plus a few Norton's dating from 1951 to 1972. New winter bike Kawasaki W650.
British Bikes don't leak oil, they mark their territory.

November 09, 2014, 11:11:43 PMReply #3 on

Offline Bixxer Bob

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I can't remember if they come apart, but it might be worth checking whether it's just blocked by a bit of crud that'll have been disturbed when you emptied the tank
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November 10, 2014, 01:34:59 AMReply #4 on

Offline KuzzinKenny

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Hows yer fuel filter ??

just a thought

KK
In Scotland, there`s no such thing as bad weather - only the wrong clothes !! Billy Connolly
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November 14, 2014, 09:14:52 AMReply #5 on

Offline Fross (OP)

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I've not had chance to investigate further this week. My plan is to remove the pump and bench test it before paying out for a replacement. I suspect the fuel filter has never been changed from when the bike was new so most likely it'll need replacing too. I will post what I find.
Regards, Fross
2005 Tiger plus a few Norton's dating from 1951 to 1972. New winter bike Kawasaki W650.
British Bikes don't leak oil, they mark their territory.

November 19, 2014, 02:45:34 PMReply #6 on

Offline Fross (OP)

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I’m still very puzzled and have a very sick Tiger. :icon_cry:
Today I connected test leads directly from the battery to the fuel pump connection and you hear the pump running (a good sound, not screeching). In this state the engine fires but runs very rough as if it’s too choked, it cuts out when the throttle is closed (no tick over).
When I reconnect the pump connector (which only reads 11.6 volts with ignition on) I cannot hear the pump run (the battery is fully charged and sits above 12.7 volts). Engine starts once but cuts out very quickly and no longer fires until I reconnect my “pump direct to the battery leads” to put fuel pressure into the fuel rail.
Anyone any idea’s whats gone wrong and what I should do next? :icon_confused:
2005 Tiger plus a few Norton's dating from 1951 to 1972. New winter bike Kawasaki W650.
British Bikes don't leak oil, they mark their territory.

November 19, 2014, 04:03:58 PMReply #7 on

Offline KuzzinKenny

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Hey Fross !! Just my thoughts, check big fuse at side of battery box, fuel pump relay or a bad earth somewhere  :^_^

The fuse might look ok but there has been issues with them !!

Good luck

KK
In Scotland, there`s no such thing as bad weather - only the wrong clothes !! Billy Connolly
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Lucifer Orange 05 (2004) Purrrrrrfect !!

November 19, 2014, 06:14:21 PMReply #8 on

Offline Fross (OP)

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Hey Fross !! Just my thoughts, check big fuse at side of battery box, fuel pump relay or a bad earth somewhere  :^_^

Hi KK, I think you're right I hadn't thought about the basic stuff. I haven’t done resistance checks on the wiring to check ground etc. Although looking at the wiring diagram the ground wire from the pump goes straight into the ECM for some reason? I guess it controls it via the ground wire. I'll check all connections in the ignition circuits, plus main fuses.
Unfortunately because the bike’s kept outdoors I don’t get many opportunities now it’s dark so early. :icon_frown:
2005 Tiger plus a few Norton's dating from 1951 to 1972. New winter bike Kawasaki W650.
British Bikes don't leak oil, they mark their territory.

November 19, 2014, 07:52:41 PMReply #9 on

Offline Sin_Tiger

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You've got plenty of petrol you're not using, start a fire  :bad

Sorry not very helpful but I think you're on the right track with Kenny's hints. It's amazing how much poor connections can drop the voltage.
I used to have long hair, took acid and went to hip joints. Now I long for hair, take antacid and need a new hip joint

November 20, 2014, 09:21:02 AMReply #10 on

Offline Fross (OP)

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You've got plenty of petrol you're not using, start a fire  :bad

 :sign13: Before I put a match to it I'd better offer it to you guys for spare parts :icon_wink:
2005 Tiger plus a few Norton's dating from 1951 to 1972. New winter bike Kawasaki W650.
British Bikes don't leak oil, they mark their territory.

December 07, 2014, 01:54:59 AMReply #11 on

Offline KuzzinKenny

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Hey Fross !! any luck with yer Tigger ??

 :^_^

KK
In Scotland, there`s no such thing as bad weather - only the wrong clothes !! Billy Connolly
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Lucifer Orange 05 (2004) Purrrrrrfect !!

December 12, 2014, 07:45:07 PMReply #12 on

Offline Fross (OP)

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Hey Fross !! any luck with yer Tigger ??
KK
Thanks for asking KK. Unfortunatly not yet, the reason being work taking up too much of my time :BangHead
I intend to get on with it during the Christmas break :icon_study:
I will keep you informed.
Regards, Fross
2005 Tiger plus a few Norton's dating from 1951 to 1972. New winter bike Kawasaki W650.
British Bikes don't leak oil, they mark their territory.

December 13, 2014, 12:40:24 PMReply #13 on

Offline Sin_Tiger

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Thanks for asking KK. Unfortunatly not yet, the reason being work taking up too much of my time :BangHead
I intend to get on with it during the Christmas break :icon_study:
I will keep you informed.
Regards, Fross

No sneaking of for an extra mince pie either  :nono we're watching.
I used to have long hair, took acid and went to hip joints. Now I long for hair, take antacid and need a new hip joint

December 29, 2014, 12:12:01 PMReply #14 on

Offline Fross (OP)

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Yesterday I tested for good/bad earth and found nothing but good earth at all crucial points. After playing around with the fuel pump cable connector and carefully cleaning the terminals I discovered it WAS a faulty connection causing the fuel pump not to run. Once this was rectified the fuel pump hums nicely for a couple of seconds every time the ignition is turned on. Fuel pump problem now resolved and engine now starts and but runs terrible (just as it did before I took off the tank back in November).

I have today connected my laptop and erased these two error codes:-
P0230 - Fuel pump relay default
P1231 - Fuel pump relay open circuit or short to ground
(I presume these only appeared because of the bad connection problem that I’ve now resolved.)

Now back to the original "rough running" problem. :icon_scratch:
I started the bike to let it warm up without touching the throttle (if I touch the throttle I know it would just misfire and stall). Two screen shots as it warmed up below.
Capture1

Capture2

Now the fan has come on, picture below.
Capture3

I now open the throttle to see what happens and it straight away runs rough with black smoke coming out the exhaust. I am holding the throttle open to prevent it stalling. Picture below.
Capture4

I am now trying to hold the engine at idle speed, it is running very rough and the throttle is held partly open. Picture below.
Capture5

This last screen shot is where I opened the throttle to increase engine speed before closing the throttle to see if it would idle. It stalled instantly just after the screen capture. Picture below.
Capture6

I’m now at a loss at what to do. :^_^ I have no error codes. The engine runs so rough it can not be ridden.
Can anyone see anything way out in the sensor figures because I don't know what I should be looking for?
Should I try reloading the Map? (it is the standard “10172Map.hex”)
I hope someone can advise me. :bowdown
Thanks for reading and Happy New Year to you all. :wave
Fross
2005 Tiger plus a few Norton's dating from 1951 to 1972. New winter bike Kawasaki W650.
British Bikes don't leak oil, they mark their territory.