Author Topic: Cylinder hone, 06 955i  (Read 3558 times)

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October 24, 2016, 09:57:01 PM on

Offline SteveFord (OP)

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The giant load is using oil so I don't think the previous owner broke it in properly.  He did mention that he never saw the upper rev regions...
I see this motor has removable liners but all I'm planning on doing is running a set of dingleberries through the bores, new rings and valve guide seals while I have it apart.
Do I have to do anything in particular with the liners as far as sealant when I put it back together?
From what I can see this looks like an operation which can be performed with the motor in the frame (I hope).
Bike has 18,000 miles on it and the oil consumption only goes up at speeds of 80 MPH and up (normal highway speeds here).  Then I have to dump in around 1/3 of a quart every 500 miles which seems excessive to me.
Thanks in advance.

October 25, 2016, 06:57:31 PMReply #1 on

Offline Chris Canning

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Untill we had one very hot two week trip across Europe the bike never burned oil period,but after it got hot and bothered a few times it does now and on trips I do tend to keep a check on the oil level

I'd be amazed if it was the bores more like the valve guide seals,I think Bixxer stripped his 955 down in situ,but I'd be inclined to try a couple of different makes of oil assuming you have't already,and to be honest I'd expect a plume of blue smoke out of the pipe at 500 miles to a litre are you getting that?

October 25, 2016, 08:49:19 PMReply #2 on

Offline Timbox2

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If Ive got the conversion right, thats about 0.5 litres in 1000 miles which although not terrible is a bit much for an 18k mile engine. Im with Chris on the bores. Is your bike the later 1050 engine cases or not? If its the earlier engine you could look at the breather seal in the alternator cover. As you asked about sealant for the liners the original prescribed sealant was Blue Hylomar. I would also maybe look at oil specs, my current Tiger would appear to burn fully synth oil more than semi, though thats not conclusive yet.
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October 25, 2016, 09:34:31 PMReply #3 on

Offline SteveFord (OP)

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It smells rich on start up and the oil consumption is only happening at revs above 5000.  If you just poke along the oil level stays steady.
I'm not good at poking along, ha, ha.
I haven't tried different oils yet, I'm using Mobil 1 4T 10W40.
I'm thinking glazed rings from the previous owner just getting on the bike and riding it around like he's in a car.  He did say he never revved it very far and he was not an experienced motorcyclist.  Lots of sand in the front chain guard from riding off road.
The bike was down a quart when I purchased it, I figured he'd just screwed up an oil change.
Nope.
If I have the heads off for the seals I might as well pull the cylinders and do new rings.  I'd have to do a comparison with the Sprint ST to answer for sure about the cases.

October 26, 2016, 12:35:15 AMReply #4 on

Offline SteveFord (OP)

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It smells rich on start up and the oil consumption is only happening at revs above 5000.  If you just poke along the oil level stays steady.
I'm not good at poking along, ha, ha.
I haven't tried different oils yet, I'm using Mobil 1 4T 10W40.
I'm thinking glazed bores from the previous owner just getting on the bike and riding it around like he's in a car.  He did say he never revved it very far and he was not an experienced motorcyclist.  Lots of sand in the front chain guard from riding off road.
The bike was down a quart when I purchased it, I figured he'd just screwed up an oil change.
Nope.
If I have the heads off for the seals I might as well pull the cylinders and do new rings.  I'd have to do a comparison with the Sprint ST to answer for sure about the cases.

October 26, 2016, 01:28:05 AMReply #5 on

Offline Timbox2

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Here is my Tiger with the early Generator case with the breather pipe coming off the front. Later engine case looks different and doesnt have the breather pipe coming off there.

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October 26, 2016, 07:21:50 AMReply #6 on

Offline Chris Canning

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What year is your bike? If you check the threads there are two different oil quantities for the 955,so was it down or did he under fill it.

Mine is rich on start up as well,pulling the engine down at that kind of mileage is the last thing I'd be doing.

My 2001 is 4l for an oil change and filter and it needed more than that to get the level up on the dipstick when screwed in and there are plenty of posts about that as well but later models are less.

October 26, 2016, 09:10:49 AMReply #7 on

Offline SteveFord (OP)

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Mine is an 06 and has the later style crankcase.
I suppose it's possible the bike has the wrong dipstick in it from the factory.

October 26, 2016, 09:25:16 PMReply #8 on

Offline SteveFord (OP)

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The dipstick in this 06 955i Tiger is the same length as the one in my 02 Sprint.
The dipstick in this 06 955i Tiger/02 Sprint is about 1/2" longer than the one in my 06 1050 Sprint.

The online parts books show:
06 955i Tiger T1261180
1050 Sprint T1261180
02 955 Sprint T1261180

For some unknown reason they have me running a higher oil level in the 1050 even though the part numbers are the same.
Something is amiss in Triumph-land.

October 27, 2016, 01:37:55 AMReply #9 on

Offline Timbox2

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The dipstick in this 06 955i Tiger is the same length as the one in my 02 Sprint.
The dipstick in this 06 955i Tiger/02 Sprint is about 1/2" longer than the one in my 06 1050 Sprint.

The online parts books show:
06 955i Tiger T1261180
1050 Sprint T1261180
02 955 Sprint T1261180

For some unknown reason they have me running a higher oil level in the 1050 even though the part numbers are the same.
Something is amiss in Triumph-land.

And Ive found another number, T1261418, which is listed for Sprint ST after vin 208167 and Sprint GT, ??
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October 27, 2016, 02:29:17 PMReply #10 on

Offline Bixxer Bob

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I got your PM Steve, but thought I might as well answer here for the greater good.

At 18k I'm with everyone else.  Mine had 37k on it when I opened her up and you could still see honing marks in the bores.  Zero wear.  Nor was there any sort of valve guide or valve seal problem.  And I see you are using the oil that Triumph used to recommend so all good there too.

Here's what I'd be doing.

First look in the airbox and throttle bodies. If there's any oil residue in there or they're black and sticky, Tim's suggestion of the generator oil seal is the way to go.  There's agood write up in the "How To" section by Evil Betty on that one.  EB chased vanishing oil for a long time and didn't ever fully cure it.  His was just one of those bikes.

I'm assuming you've checked around for other leaks; the gearbox output seal and the gearchange shaft are good places to look.  But then again, if they were the only issue, you'd be getting drips.

If you still think it's glazed bores, before you wade in and spend loads of cash, spend a little on an illuminated mini USB cam.  They're about $15 from Ebay, as thick as a pencil and will easily go through a plug hole.  That way you can have a good look at your bores before you start.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Waterproof-LED-USB-Endoscope-Borescope-Snake-Inspection-Tube-Pipe-Camera-UK-/112086412092?var=&hash=item1a18deeb3c:m:mab0o4NeAG3LO8fxbomc3Kw

If you're still going in, yes it can be done with the engine in the frame.  And Blue Hylomar is the sealant to use for the liners.  Don't be tempted to re-use the gudgeon pin circlips because they are known to fail.  It's not a simple job but it is relatively straight forward.





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October 27, 2016, 06:40:16 PMReply #11 on

Offline Sin_Tiger

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 :iagree The "hard break in" is not so relevant for engines made within the last 20 years. The run in procedures recommended by makers are more aimed at heat stresses to allow gaskets and sealants to cure and seat properly. Triumphs have one of the higher piston speeds of similar machines and only need a bit of caution at the extreme top end of the Rev range until they're settled in. My Steamer still had excellent cylinder sealing, clear hone marks and no measurable wear at 85k miles, I knew the first owner and mechanically sympathetic is not an atribute I would have used to describe him.

I'd follow Bixxer's suggestion and get a look inside before you jump in there. If you can see hone marks and no damage it means that there isn't any hard glazing (which normally is an opaque dark brown) and won't need attention. Going at bores with stones is not recommended unless you know exactly what you're doing and why, it's not hard to end up creating a problem you didn't have to start with.

Think about this (and it's applicable to just about any engine) as engine / piston speeds and loads increase, so does the crankcase pressure and the amount of oil that's in the form of vapour means it's going to find it's way out at the points of least resistance. Up through the ring pack is not an easy path. 
Oil seals deteriorate even when the engines not running, in fact, sitting watching them they will go faster than putting miles on it. So if the PO hadn't put a lot of miles on it, I'd put my money on seals too.
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October 27, 2016, 09:52:38 PMReply #12 on

Offline SteveFord (OP)

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Thank you, good advice,  especially with that scope.  If that looks good I'll do the seals.
The air filter was just horrible so I may have some cylinder scoring going on.  We'll see.
It didn't have many miles on it (only 4000) but they look to have been done on sandy trails.
This bike did spend most of  it's life sitting as the previous owner kept it 1500 miles away from home base and would just use it on vacations.
No oil in the air box last time I looked, it was dry as a bone and no leaks.
It's going out the Staintune canister, you can see the residue in there.
At first I was thinking hot weather, maybe it's the oil itself, maybe just rich running until the 02 sensor kicks in but no, it's nothing easy.  The oil is getting past something and out the back it goes.

I'm going to write to Triumph and see if I can't get the definitive answer on these dipsticks, too.

Speaking of cylinders and seals and whatnot, here's what I just got done doing at 94,000 miles.  Not a Triumph but now it's ready to push on to 200K:



October 31, 2016, 08:44:37 PMReply #13 on

Offline Bixxer Bob

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A blocked air filter will encourage oil past the valve seals.  Valve opens to let air/fuel in, blocked airfilter restricts flow so vacuum sucks oil past the valve seals.  Tiny amounts but enough to cause your problem....

I'd run it with a new air filter and see what happens before tearing into it.
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October 31, 2016, 09:42:40 PMReply #14 on

Offline SteveFord (OP)

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It does have a new filter in it.  I tried both a K&N and OEM.
Mileage went from around 29 MPH to upper 40s.
Oil consumption stayed the same.  That was around 12000 miles ago.
Triumph is going to get back to me about the dipstick, I'll try semi synthetic oil next change and if it's still sucking down oil I'll take it apart and fix it.