Next Week's MCN...

[Brock]

MCN are doing a group test next week with our beloved Tigger up against the new GS12 and the KTM (the one with the razor blade for a seat).

I guess we know which one'll come out on top (as usual). Let's hope the Tigger gives it a run for it's money...talking of money, six and a half grand against nine and a half grand???

[PaulBerg]

They should have waited a month and tested aginst the new cast wheel tiger. New against new.



Also, it has become politically correct among bike journalists to say the GS is the best, in the same way that the only conclusion possible for sport tourers was that VFRs were 5 stars. Few bike tester- journalists have the balls to brake ranks.



Read the reviews and then take a test ride. It's the only true test.



Paul

[Guest]

Just recently Bike mag have start to be a bit easier on the Tiger. Almost recomended it once! Could be because BMW are starting to price themselves outside the price range of the ordinary bloke in the street. For gods sake. If they've reduced the weight by 30kgs they ought to be reducing the price as well. Less bike you see.

[Brock]

Well, I s'pose that wasn't too bad then...at least they admitted the Tigger's the most fun in the twisties. But how can they say the KTM's comfortable? every other review says its got a seat like a razor blade. The tester must have an arse made of steel...Still amazed they didn't wait and include the new model (for what little difference it's worth...)

Is it me or have some of these mags got some weird power/weight figures for these bikes? Maybe it's me.

[pauljones1227]

Its a good review but I'm slightly concerned about the footpegs to seat height comment

I'm 99% certain I will be cruising on an 05 Tiger within a few weeks, but coming from a tall XT600 I am hoping its not a problem, also the bars being a tad low as well.

In a moment of panic I started looking up stats on the KTM but its just plain ugly !!

[Chris Canning]

Well i have to say i thought the write up was good entertainment!!!,i've had some social dealings with some of the testers so i'd class most of it as complete bolloxs,well i think thats the technical term!!!!!.



The thing that struck most of all was looking at the speck sheet,the new GS only has a 20Litre tank!!! thats bad news i can tell you,my 1100s has a 19litre tank and it's a pain in the arse,it won't take long for people to pick up on that,they'll soon get pissed of.



Chris

[BigDave]

Well, I s'pose that wasn't too bad then...at least they admitted the Tigger's the most fun in the twisties. --SNIP.

They really said that?  After riding both, it seems to me there is no comparison between the Tiger and the GS in the twisties.  The GS eats the Tiger bad.  Real bad.

[Robbie]

Every time I buy a magazine I promise that I will not waste any more money. It usually lasts about 3 months, then I am waiting for a plane or train and I buy one for the entertainment and that usually confirms my view that it is all bollox.

These guys write a lot of drivel and then draw conclusions that don’t match their own observations. Last months BIKE was the last straw, the Tiger was the best bike overall but looked ugly so the recommendation was for the second rated bike. They even said that the tigers lap time was artificially good as the track was drying. The Honda ran last so that must have had the best track but they compared that OK.

Now the fish rap comes up with this. I haven’t got it with me at the moment so I am working from memory but basically they tested motorway, sweeping A road, twisty B road and off road.

From what I read I draw the following conclusions:

Motorway- BMW, Tiger, KTM

A road- Tiger. KTM, BMW

B road- KTM,Tiger,BMW

Off road- KTM, Tiger BMW

They said the Tiger had the most comfortable seat but the pegs are cramped, did they raise the seat? Tigers come in the lowest position. The Tiger had the lowers seat to the ground. I haven’t seen a 12gs but my mates 1100gs has a lower seat than the tiger when his is in the lowest position (low seat) BMW come with it set in mid position. With a comfortable seat and the longest tank range I would be tempted to put that at the top of the list for motorway miles.

In their conclusions they say that the Tiger wasn’t the best at anything, but I am positive they said it was the best on sweeping A roads? I don’t remember them saying it was the worst at anything so it must have been 2nd at everything, in my book that is better than being last in something and good at something else if you want an all rounder.

They did mention the non adjustable levers and heavy controls that I find a problem and didn’t say a dam thing about ‘to much’ fork dive under braking that all the other wan***s do so their testers are familiar with this type of bike and how to ride it properly.

They did not slate the tiger and said the usual thing that they where surprised at how well it did, compared to bikes several thousand pounds more expensive. I think the actual test was a good one I do not agree with all their conclusions and you have to admit it was a close run thing. I bought a tiger because I liked it, I liked it better than the 1150gs and the KTM was months away from production at the time, both these bikes are really good bikes and it is a hard job to compare and rate them against each other. My tiger has adjustable levers, proper hand guards and other things that make it better than it was for me.

Turning a few pages back in the paper you can see something that may be very significant to the final ratings given to the bikes. Mt Peter Barker (deputy editor) has been given a BMW1200gs for a long-term test, he had a Tiger when he worked for RIDE last year and came for a run with us. (Nice guy he bought lunch). The art editor has a KTM for his long-term test. The writer of the article is a racer and is using a R1.



I have now made another resolution no more mags and no more MCN.

[Brock]

My old eyes must be playing me up...for a second I could have sworn someone reckons the GS "eats" the Tiger in the twisties...

Well Dave, with all due respect, that's bollocks. I too have ridden both, and believe me I WANTED to love the GS. But the big area where it was found woefully lacking was power. Particularly in the twisties. OK the GS may have a different suspension set-up that may suit some riders better. But in the twisties I'm afraid the Tiger is the one doing the eating.

Strewth...I even dusted an RS250 the other night on my way home...and they're REALLY supposed to handle. Man, I stuck on that kids tail all through some incredible corners...he was hanging off, climbing all over the bike etc etc. Me? it was like sitting back in me favourite arm chair. A less safety-consious rider could have passed him on my bike in a corner, but I just opened her up on an exit and he was dust... The fact that I was able to stay with him, then power past, says it all I think.

[trotts]

:shock:  The Gs eats the Tiger, real Bad !!! :o   Now I owned a GS 1150 for 15 happy months until last Xmas, including a big Spanish trip two up.  I have owned a Tiger before (99) , a Varadera and now a Tiger again.  I ride in the 'normal world' or simply 'riding to arrive'.  I cannot say there is that much difference between them.  The GS scores in certain area's,  the Tiger wins in others.  The engine on the Tiger makes the GS seem very agriculteral, while the shaft drive has plus points and minus points on the GS.  On the old 1150 many of us owners used to spend a wee sum on ditching cats, adding 'Y' peices and so on.  All to get a few more horses from the thing.  It is an interesting debate as the GS is a top drawer machine.  So is the Tiger, but at a few grand cheaper ?????? That to me makes it a winner.  Compared to the GS1200 it is about 3 (£) grand cheaper.  If they were the same price it would be a close run thing with perhaps the beemer coming out on top.  Me .  Happy with Tiger, look forward to runs with GSers !!

[Chris Canning]

Hi Gents



Robbie you really must lighten up!!! your takeing the things far to seriously god knows how many mags i buy from Classic Racer to Superbike and even get e'm shipped in from France,Holland and Germany,it never bothers me to much!!! why??? because i know better and i don't say that tongue in cheek,theres plenty of other things 0f interest in e'm.



As a BM owner i know how much my S has cost to get it something like,at the last count over 7 grand thats pounds sterling!!!,but my Tiger with a few tweeks is still a match for it,a stock GS wouldn't sniff it.



But like i said on a previous posting,no matter how good the new GS is people will soon get fed up with it,for no other reason than the piss poor tank size(My S is the same),the reality is by the time you done 120 miles you'll looking for fuel,and of course the most important thing of all you can't get one!!!! next September is the earliest delivery,fat lot of good that is!!!!!.



Chris

[BigDave]

I'd agree that in some ways the BMW engine feels "agricultural" or whatever, but the torque is sweet.  It pulls like hell coming out of the corners.  I do not know if its the telelever or the lower center of gravity or the combination of both factors, but without trying to piss off you Tiger guys, my experience is that the GS handles better in the corners.  It falls right in and feels like its on rails.  You can flick it back without effort. The Tiger was like wrestling in comparison.  My comments were my observations (based on riding/owning both bikes) about cornering and not an outright overall comparison.  I believe there are areas where each bike rivals the other, but IMO, the twisties belong to the GS.

[Guest]

One thing everyone here has missed is that the Tiger MCN tested was a year old 2003 bike. They go on about the stiff throttle and clutch. Well mine aren't stiff. The throttle cable is known for coming adrift under the throttle bodies making it stiff. The clutch cable was probably knackered and the seat needed adjusting.

I'd say the bike they had was a dog. And shame on "On Yer Triumph" for letting them borrow a bike in such crap condition.

I'm pleased that it gave the other two NEW bikes a run for their (more expensive) money when in such a crap state.

They also got the price wrong £7295?? Should be £6999.

[Brock]

Dave and Trotts...we seem to be confused here. I won't deny that of the two bikes (955i Tiger and 1150GS) the Beemer has the most highly developed suspension. Although it isn't the be-all and end-all that some people think it is;"...it also limits feedback from the front, robbing you of confidence on the way into a corner" and "Telelever front end lacks feel of conventional forks". MCN have a good point here, although I personally found the suspension on the GS to be excellent. Where the difference lies I think is in the way the Tigger gets on the power earlier, digs in, and powers out. On the beemer I found I was getting on the power in the exit and not much was happening. So let's not confuse suspension quality for "fun in the twisties"...The trick, as we all know (or should anyway) is to read the corner early, keep off the brakes, peel her in, and get on the power early. It's simply easier, more rewarding, and more fun on the Tiger. And I'll stick pins in my own eyeballs before I admit otherwise.

[BigDave]

Dave and Trotts...we seem to be confused here. I won't deny that of the two bikes (955i Tiger and 1150GS) the Beemer has the most highly developed suspension. Although it isn't the be-all and end-all that some people think it is;"...it also limits feedback from the front, robbing you of confidence on the way into a corner" and "Telelever front end lacks feel of conventional forks". MCN have a good point here, although I personally found the suspension on the GS to be excellent. Where the difference lies I think is in the way the Tigger gets on the power earlier, digs in, and powers out. On the beemer I found I was getting on the power in the exit and not much was happening. So let's not confuse suspension quality for "fun in the twisties"...The trick, as we all know (or should anyway) is to read the corner early, keep off the brakes, peel her in, and get on the power early. It's simply easier, more rewarding, and more fun on the Tiger. And I'll stick pins in my own eyeballs before I admit otherwise.

Thats fine.  My opinion is this...

The telelever doesn't interfere with MY feeling of the road.



I can be "in" the corner faster on the GS so I don't have make up as many MPH on the way out.



True, the Tiger has more eceleration than the GS and the engine has an overall "fun" factor built in, but its not as big of difference as it actually sounds.



I know it will be impossible for some of you guys to believe this.  I too used to talk shit to guys on GS's that said they could smoke me in the corners.  I still didn't believe the GS had the cornering ability till I had my GS out on Hiway 1 on California's central coast.  Then it all became clear to me very quickly as I was going much faster through corners on the GS.    Those corners would have made the Tiger feel uncomfortable as I would have had to wresttle the bike through those corners while I hope & pray I don't biff it.  I guess if you think that type of riding is more fun, then so be it.



I had rode my Tiger with a guy (he was 2 up in fact) that had a GS up on some mountain 2 lane highway passes.  He was leading us.  I was in this "sportbike" mode of downshifting, heavy braking, high rev eceleration out of the corners, shitfting at redline mode the whole time.  It was a struggle for me to keep up but I did none-the-less.  When we stopped, I said, "wow, were were really hauling ass back there", he just looked at me & said, "I dunno, it felt like a fairly leisurely pace as I wasn't trying to push it."  At the time I though he was full of shit, but after being on the GS, I now realize he was not.



None of this matters much if we all are happy with our bike of choice and enjoy every ride we go on.  Let's RIDE!  8)