Was in Hereford today and popped into Raw Power Motorcycles with the intention of buying a Motobatt or Varta battery or such like. He tells me they have stopped selling Motobatt as they had loads of issues (2nd Shop to tell me this by the way). He hasnt got a Varta in stock but has got a JMT Lithium, whooa I say, I hear all sorts of stuff about Lithium etc, but he has sold loads and so far has only had 1 come back. Go on then I say, "How Much", expecting eye watering price. £77, which is £17 more than a Yuasa. I picked it up and nearly fell over, dont weigh much more than me wallet (actually its 900g, the Yuasa weighs 4700). Been out and put it on the Tiger, its showing 13.2 volts out of the box without a charge. I have never heard the bike turn over so quickly, and the bike has been sat for 2 weeks in a near freezing garage. Now yes, it does warn that below freezing conditions may result in reduced output, and yes I will probably have to go and get another charger, although the instructions do say that a standard charger can be used as long as It doesnt have a recovery mode which puts out high voltage. Anyway, we shall see.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/cockneytaff/IMG_1201_zpsvpzuzltf.jpg)
I had to buy a new battery recently. Ended up with a Yuasa . But I was also told by someone who works for a large motorcycle parts retailer that they get a lot of Motobatt batteries returned!
Having done a bit of research on chargers, and also because its recommended by the battery manufacturer, Ive ordered one of these from Amazon, my old charger is pretty useless anyway
https://no.co/g3500
£45 on Amazon so seems pretty reasonable
Bought an Optimate lithium but when it comes to reading the clues it's not an exact science like a normally battery and tender when you can just leave it on regardless.
So, I put this Lithium on last Friday, and apart from a very quick 40 mile run last Sunday the bike has been sat in a very cold Garage since then, with the immobiliser running.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/cockneytaff/IMG_1208_zps9ipxamz0.jpg)
This is battery voltage, bike not running and its dropped .03v since Sunday. Now yes, a Lead acid battery will generally only show a max of 12.8 to 12.6 fully charged, but my Yuasa would often drop to 12.4v within the same time frame, and I had it tested by a Yuasa dealer who said it was perfect. The real test is yet to come I suppose with sub sub temps, but apparently there is a procedure for "Waking Up" a Lithium in cold conditions, which is to turn the ignition and headlights on for a couple of minutes before you start cranking.
All Im really saying at the moment is that it appears a Lithium can handle a small drain (Alarm system) , better than a Lead acid, and it reminds me that I must get round to actually stripping the bloody thing out before it strands me like the last one did.
There is less internal current leakage with LIFEPO4 which is why standby shelf life quoted is often double that of LA cells and they are normally supplied dry
Right, in the interests of scientific research, ok, not very scientific. Went up the garage this morning as we dropped to around -3C last night and I wanted to see how the Lithium would respond. Firstly put the meter on it and its still showing 13.2V. First went to start as normal, and sure enough, very slow cranking, maybe if I had kept going It might have started but I didnt want to stress the sprag. So, ignition on, all lights on, heated grips on, battery voltage now drops to under 12V but I leave it for a couple of minutes then switch off, wait 10 seconds and on again, this time she turns over much faster and fires immediately, so it would seem the "wakeup" procedure works.
Ive fully charged the old Yuasa and for the last couple of days Ive been monitoring the voltage and its stayed steady at 12.8V, so tomorrow morning I'll try it with the Yuasa for comparison, think I know the results already but we shall see.
Update 22/01: I didnt try the Yuasa today as I wanted to nip out for a quick ride to the Steelhorse, temperature didnt drop as low last night and the Lithium started the bike fine, below 0C does seem to be the failure point, though not really failure, the info that comes with the battery does say that available current is diminished below freezing.
That won't be a problem my failure point is anything under 12c :icon_biggrin:
Interested to hear that Mottobat are having issues, I am on my second, its a couple of years old (I will change it soon just to be on the safeside) and it is totally reliable. I changed the last one at about the same time and it was still working fine and is in the garage as a back up. it has been as low as -6 and not above 0 every morning for the last couple of weeks and the bike turns over like its got a brand new charged battery.
Bloody cold ride to work when you do get going though even with the heated grips on!
Quote from: HockleyBoy on January 23, 2017, 06:13:36 PM
Interested to hear that Mottobat are having issues, I am on my second, its a couple of years old (I will change it soon just to be on the safeside) and it is totally reliable. I changed the last one at about the same time and it was still working fine and is in the garage as a back up. it has been as low as -6 and not above 0 every morning for the last couple of weeks and the bike turns over like its got a brand new charged battery.
Bloody cold ride to work when you do get going though even with the heated grips on!
Ref Motobatt, it might be all boll***ks mate, the same shop who sold me the Lithium and said they had stopped selling Motobatts because of issues, told me that he reckoned the problem was when Motobatt switched their manufacturing to China. And yet the Lithium he sold me which he told me was German is in fact also made in China Ive since learnt. Yeah, a German company puts them in a box :icon_lol:
Aliant (http://www.go-aliant.com/lithium/index.php/en/) made in Italy.
I have never had more battery failures as I did with a lithium battery (at least 6 different times in abou a year and I even got sick of it during the winter that I put the 5 year old lead acid one from the wrecked bike in which of course always started and workedf flawlessly) Will never buy one again until they figure out how to actually have a usable battery in temp ranges outside of 50-90 degrees. They are unusable if you ride in sub 40 degree weather and don't have it in a heated garage and will not work if it gets over heated either (which happens quite often when you get stuck in traffic in summer since the battery sits so close to the engine.
Dont' worry, it will burn you sooner rather than later. Mine would read 13.18-.22 volts all the while it wouldn't turn the bike over.
It's all relative as they say :icon_biggrin:
My days of wanting or having to ride during the winter are long gone,my garage is exactly the same temperature as my living room I walk straight out of one into the other,but the carpet isn't as good in the garage :icon_redface:
In 47 years of biking I have never been stuck in traffic that's why I ride a bike us Europeans filter.
The Lithium on my SuperMoto is just running into its 4th year and been on a charger twice(out of curiosity),now I do not suppose for the majority neither of the above are the norm but if nothing else gives folks a cross reference :icon_lol:
Quote from: Timbox2 on January 23, 2017, 09:17:50 PM
Ref Motobatt, it might be all boll***ks mate, the same shop who sold me the Lithium and said they had stopped selling Motobatts because of issues, told me that he reckoned the problem was when Motobatt switched their manufacturing to China. And yet the Lithium he sold me which he told me was German is in fact also made in China Ive since learnt. Yeah, a German company puts them in a box :icon_lol:
You are right, people do talk B*&^^%X when they want to sell you something! I didn't know Motobatt were ever made anywhere other than China.
Quote from: Chris Canning on January 24, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
It's all relative as they say :icon_biggrin:
My days of wanting or having to ride during the winter are long gone,my garage is exactly the same temperature as my living room I walk straight out of one into the other,but the carpet isn't as good in the garage :icon_redface:
In 47 years of biking I have never been stuck in traffic that's why I ride a bike us Europeans filter.
The Lithium on my SuperMoto is just running into its 4th year and been on a charger twice(out of curiosity),now I do not suppose for the majority neither of the above are the norm but if nothing else gives folks a cross reference :icon_lol:
You are lucky Chris, some of us have to ride every day and even if you filter you still get stuck when trying to get in and out of London during rush hour so we need an battery that copes with a wide range of temps.
Quote from: Chris Canning on January 24, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
It's all relative as they say :icon_biggrin:
My days of wanting or having to ride during the winter are long gone,my garage is exactly the same temperature as my living room I walk straight out of one into the other,but the carpet isn't as good in the garage :icon_redface:
In 47 years of biking I have never been stuck in traffic that's why I ride a bike us Europeans filter.
The Lithium on my SuperMoto is just running into its 4th year and been on a charger twice(out of curiosity),now I do not suppose for the majority neither of the above are the norm but if nothing else gives folks a cross reference :icon_lol:
I guess you also never had the pleasure of riding thru the painted desert. It failed there as well. Nothing crazy temp wise but luckily it had enough power in it that I could push start it. If not it was a freaking desert and would not have been a nice place to stay. It was all of 2 weeks old at that point with a better regulator rectifier then Triumph put on the bike. If you used your bike all year round in the US a lithium battery is not for you. Oh and you are right, I never had to charge the thing either but if it doesn't do its job and start the bike that really doesn't matter does it. :)
I had my Armageddon with a motorcycle battery a few years ago having ridden 175 miles stopped for fuel before having to catch a ferry to leave the country only to find it stone dead and 30 minutes to work out what the hell we were going to do and it wasn't a Lithium.
For some reason the relative part seems to have missed you if I lived in a desert maybe I wouldn't use one or a K&N filter for that matter but the majority do not!!,just like the majority don't walk out of their living room into the garage which currently is 17c :icon_biggrin:
Stop making me jealous Canning, Ive got a bit of exhaust fettling to do and it's pigging freezing in my garage.
Quote from: Chris Canning on January 24, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
I had my Armageddon with a motorcycle battery a few years ago having ridden 175 miles stopped for fuel before having to catch a ferry to leave the country only to find it stone dead and 30 minutes to work out what the hell we were going to do and it wasn't a Lithium.
For some reason the relative part seems to have missed you if I lived in a desert maybe I wouldn't use one or a K&N filter for that matter but the majority do not!!,just like the majority don't walk out of their living room into the garage which currently is 17c :icon_biggrin:
Nor do I but when I want to ride I want to ride and with a Lithium battery that has parameters that send it into safe mode so that it doesn't BLOW UP you are stuck with what it wants to do that day. As I said 6 times living in a very nomal climate my bike was useless last year (and it would have been 60 times if I didn't remove the pos and run with a winter battery). Hell I think a Harley would start more than that but i guess if you'd rather ride in a cage then that explains it. :)
So, what have we learnt?.
Lithium may not be for everyone. Certainly not Benebob, very possibly not for me, but I never did pin all my hopes on it anyway, my Yuasa is still there as back-up. It was more curiosity than anything else and its stuff like this that we learn from and maybe pass on, and since leaving BMW behind I have more money for product testing anyway. :icon_lol:
Oh, and lets not forget the other thing weve learnt, that Canning bloke has a Garage many of us would be happy to live in, Bastard :icon_wink:
Quote from: Timbox2 on January 24, 2017, 09:52:06 PM
but I never did pin all my hopes on it anyway, my Yuasa is still there as back-up. It was more curiosity than anything else
Oh, and lets not forget the other thing weve learnt, that Canning bloke has a Garage many of us would be happy to live in, Bastard :icon_wink:
Hence why I dipped my toe in the water 3 years ago with my SM and then my 955 last year,40 years ago the cold may have been an issue but those days are long gone apart from the odd trip to Le-Mans as is freezing my balls off while working in a garage. :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: Chris Canning on January 24, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
:blah :blah :blah
,just like the majority don't walk out of their living room into the garage which currently is 17c :icon_biggrin:
is that anything like this ...................... :mut
I've gone off you too Mustang!
Is that a set of scales :icon_wink:
Glad I'm not the only lunatic on here :icon_wink:
Quote from: Timbox2 on January 25, 2017, 06:49:28 PM
Is that a set of scales :icon_wink:
thermostat in the garage ........... :*
What is this 'garage' they all speak of? :icon_frown:
Quote from: JayDub on January 25, 2017, 08:40:45 PM
What is this 'garage' they all speak of? :icon_frown:
Its a bit like Hip Hop, in it, West Side :*&*
Quote from: Timbox2 on January 24, 2017, 09:52:06 PM
So, what have we learnt?.
Lithium may not be for everyone. Certainly not Benebob, very possibly not for me, but I never did pin all my hopes on it anyway, my Yuasa is still there as back-up. It was more curiosity than anything else and its stuff like this that we learn from and maybe pass on, and since leaving BMW behind I have more money for product testing anyway. :icon_lol:
Oh, and lets not forget the other thing weve learnt, that Canning bloke has a Garage many of us would be happy to live in, Bastard :icon_wink:
Haha, to each his/her own. I was all for the idea (plus it got me back on the road immediately rather than waiting for a lead to get charged when my 7 year old battery failed in Iowa 2 summers ago. Only to realize the $160 I paid only gave me that blissful ignorance for less than 2 weeks and 8 states before it started acting like a lithium battery does. BTW Chris, you're garage is 6 degrees warmer then my house thermostat. If I turned it up that high, I'd never wanna go out skiing. lol